ekrolo2

Oct 21 2015, 06:46 PM

Kaio also owes a lot to the fighters of Earth for their services against Freeza, even if he doesn't usually want or need to focus on matters of this scale, you'd think he'd bite the bullet and make an exception this once. It might not have much value in the big picture, but Kaio doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who wouldn't do his greatest pupil & his homeworld a solid when they need him to.

Besides, Kaio could've just told him to piss off when Goku asks for his help in locating New Namek in the regular timeline if he's that strict on the rules but he doesn't. He helps Goku out even though it has no real value for anything but Earth. Now you can say Cell is a potential universal threat but so are 17 and 18. After all, they know aliens exist and once Earth has nothing left for them to do, what do you suppose they'll target next?

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Such as? The only DBZ-tuber I'm subscribed to is Geekdom101, so I don't usually hear what the majority of the community has to say about Super and GT all that often.

ekrolo2

Oct 21 2015, 02:51 PM

The Androids being strong enough to fight the good guys isn't necessarily a problem for me. My problem lies in the fact that the 17 and 18s rampage even last a quarter as long as it did because of Namek. There's no way in hell that everyone in Otherworld wouldn't come up with a plan to spend a few years training their asses off, learning things like the Kaio-ken then using the Dragon Balls of New Namek with some communication aid from King Kai to revive the fallen Z-fighters and repair the Lookout if 17 and 18 somehow destroyed it.

From that point on, even if Piccolo is the only one left from the revived fighters who can stand up to them, he can still take Gohan into the ROSAT a couple of times and both would return infinitely more powerful than before. Hell, the dead Z-fighters could even use the Dragon Balls to teleport the still living Gohan to Otherworld so he can train too. And this is if Goku fails to convince Yemma to let Vegeta keep his body.

There's simply no way the Androids should've gone on unchallenged in the Future Timeline, New Namek along with King Kai's communication ability makes it impossible for everyone but Goku to stay dead. That's why the future timeline perfectly represents why the Android & Cell Saga doesn't work at all, the good guys have too many viable loopholes to abuse for them to eve realistically lose.

SSJsongojames

Oct 23 2015, 05:43 PM

ekrolo2

Oct 21 2015, 02:51 PM

The Androids being strong enough to fight the good guys isn't necessarily a problem for me. My problem lies in the fact that the 17 and 18s rampage even last a quarter as long as it did because of Namek. There's no way in hell that everyone in Otherworld wouldn't come up with a plan to spend a few years training their asses off, learning things like the Kaio-ken then using the Dragon Balls of New Namek with some communication aid from King Kai to revive the fallen Z-fighters and repair the Lookout if 17 and 18 somehow destroyed it.

From that point on, even if Piccolo is the only one left from the revived fighters who can stand up to them, he can still take Gohan into the ROSAT a couple of times and both would return infinitely more powerful than before. Hell, the dead Z-fighters could even use the Dragon Balls to teleport the still living Gohan to Otherworld so he can train too. And this is if Goku fails to convince Yemma to let Vegeta keep his body.

There's simply no way the Androids should've gone on unchallenged in the Future Timeline, New Namek along with King Kai's communication ability makes it impossible for everyone but Goku to stay dead. That's why the future timeline perfectly represents why the Android & Cell Saga doesn't work at all, the good guys have too many viable loopholes to abuse for them to eve realistically lose.

There are multiple factors to consider:

1. King Kai is busy. This guy has to watch over a whole galaxy which is a humongous task. He cannot afford to go behind schedule for the sake of a single planet. Why else do you think he was angry at Goku after he destroyed his planet? This means that he wouldn't have time to look for New Namek because he'd be too busy with other planets. Also, King Kai never found the exact location of New Namek when he was searching for it, only the proximity of where he can sense Namekian Ki. Remember that Goku's instant transmission only worked because he's able to teleport to the Ki signature's exact location after he senses it. Outta space is too far wide to be able to pinpoint the location of a planet.

2. Goku cannot be wished back due to dying of natural causes. The only Saiyan who could be wished back is Gohan. It's unsure whether or not he was strong enough to face the Androids, but it wouldn't matter because of the reasons I mentioned earlier.

3. Bulma doesn't have a Spaceship that could travel to New Namek. All the spaceships they had that could travel there were gone by that point.

With all this considered it's easy to see that timelines like Future Trunks' make perfect sense. Not to mention that it's possible for timelines where they did find Namek and wished back Gohan to exist since there are an infinite number of timelines. That's the beauty of the timelines of the arc.

ekrolo2

Oct 23 2015, 06:03 PM

SSJsongojames

Oct 23 2015, 05:43 PM

ekrolo2

Oct 21 2015, 02:51 PM

The Androids being strong enough to fight the good guys isn't necessarily a problem for me. My problem lies in the fact that the 17 and 18s rampage even last a quarter as long as it did because of Namek. There's no way in hell that everyone in Otherworld wouldn't come up with a plan to spend a few years training their asses off, learning things like the Kaio-ken then using the Dragon Balls of New Namek with some communication aid from King Kai to revive the fallen Z-fighters and repair the Lookout if 17 and 18 somehow destroyed it.

From that point on, even if Piccolo is the only one left from the revived fighters who can stand up to them, he can still take Gohan into the ROSAT a couple of times and both would return infinitely more powerful than before. Hell, the dead Z-fighters could even use the Dragon Balls to teleport the still living Gohan to Otherworld so he can train too. And this is if Goku fails to convince Yemma to let Vegeta keep his body.

There's simply no way the Androids should've gone on unchallenged in the Future Timeline, New Namek along with King Kai's communication ability makes it impossible for everyone but Goku to stay dead. That's why the future timeline perfectly represents why the Android & Cell Saga doesn't work at all, the good guys have too many viable loopholes to abuse for them to eve realistically lose.

There are multiple factors to consider:

1. King Kai is busy. This guy has to watch over a whole galaxy which is a humongous task. He cannot afford to go behind schedule for the sake of a single planet. Why else do you think he was angry at Goku after he destroyed his planet? This means that he wouldn't have time to look for New Namek because he'd be too busy with other planets. Also, King Kai never found the exact location of New Namek when he was searching for it, only the proximity of where he can sense Namekian Ki. Remember that Goku's instant transmission only worked because he's able to teleport to the Ki signature's exact location after he senses it. Outta space is too far wide to be able to pinpoint the location of a planet.

2. Goku cannot be wished back due to dying of natural causes. The only Saiyan who could be wished back is Gohan. It's unsure whether or not he was strong enough to face the Androids, but it wouldn't matter because of the reasons I mentioned earlier.

3. Bulma doesn't have a Spaceship that could travel to New Namek. All the spaceships they had that could travel there were gone by that point.

With all this considered it's easy to see that timelines like Future Trunks' make perfect sense. Not to mention that it's possible for timelines where they did find Namek and wished back Gohan to exist since there are an infinite number of timelines. That's the beauty of the timelines of the arc.

1. King Kai doesn't do jack squat on his planet except drive his car and hang out with Bubbles. Not that it's his own fault, he's so pathetically weak he probably can't do anything even if he tried. Also, he can go wherever he likes in the afterlife so what exactly is stopping him from his non-existent duties to go tell Goku what happened (especially since he can likely sense everyone on Earth being murdered) and find a more suitable location for him to directly contact the inhabitants of New Namek from. Hell, he can even arrange for Goku to beat up whatever fighters the other quadrant Kai's have if that's what it takes to get their help.

But okay, let's say for the sake of argument he has another, bigger crisis to deal with: he can still help Earth. In fact, him helping out Earth so the Z-fighters can aid in whatever other crisis is out there would be in his best interest. By giving the fighters in the afterlife training and helping them come back to life, he's basically securing himself TWO Super Saiyan's (Vegeta and Gohan) and a Super Namekian to beat up any problem he might have elsewhere or in the future.

2. I know Goku can't come back, everyone else can though so there's no reason why Goku and King Kai couldn't have found a way to do so with the options and free time they've got left. Hell, even if Goku couldn't keep his body, King Kai can still intervene in this matter regardless.

3. Doesn't matter, they've got King Kai and/or Goku at their disposal from the afterlife both of whom can put in a good word for everyone to keep their bodies (except maybe Vegeta) and contact people the inhabitants of New Namek.

So no, the future timeline is still bulls*** as far as I'm concerned and if there really IS an alternate timeline where everyone isn't both an a***** and a moron, then why couldn't the same happen here?

SSJsongojames

Oct 23 2015, 06:14 PM

ekrolo2

Oct 23 2015, 06:03 PM

SSJsongojames

Oct 23 2015, 05:43 PM

ekrolo2

Oct 21 2015, 02:51 PM

The Androids being strong enough to fight the good guys isn't necessarily a problem for me. My problem lies in the fact that the 17 and 18s rampage even last a quarter as long as it did because of Namek. There's no way in hell that everyone in Otherworld wouldn't come up with a plan to spend a few years training their asses off, learning things like the Kaio-ken then using the Dragon Balls of New Namek with some communication aid from King Kai to revive the fallen Z-fighters and repair the Lookout if 17 and 18 somehow destroyed it.

From that point on, even if Piccolo is the only one left from the revived fighters who can stand up to them, he can still take Gohan into the ROSAT a couple of times and both would return infinitely more powerful than before. Hell, the dead Z-fighters could even use the Dragon Balls to teleport the still living Gohan to Otherworld so he can train too. And this is if Goku fails to convince Yemma to let Vegeta keep his body.

There's simply no way the Androids should've gone on unchallenged in the Future Timeline, New Namek along with King Kai's communication ability makes it impossible for everyone but Goku to stay dead. That's why the future timeline perfectly represents why the Android & Cell Saga doesn't work at all, the good guys have too many viable loopholes to abuse for them to eve realistically lose.

There are multiple factors to consider:

1. King Kai is busy. This guy has to watch over a whole galaxy which is a humongous task. He cannot afford to go behind schedule for the sake of a single planet. Why else do you think he was angry at Goku after he destroyed his planet? This means that he wouldn't have time to look for New Namek because he'd be too busy with other planets. Also, King Kai never found the exact location of New Namek when he was searching for it, only the proximity of where he can sense Namekian Ki. Remember that Goku's instant transmission only worked because he's able to teleport to the Ki signature's exact location after he senses it. Outta space is too far wide to be able to pinpoint the location of a planet.

2. Goku cannot be wished back due to dying of natural causes. The only Saiyan who could be wished back is Gohan. It's unsure whether or not he was strong enough to face the Androids, but it wouldn't matter because of the reasons I mentioned earlier.

3. Bulma doesn't have a Spaceship that could travel to New Namek. All the spaceships they had that could travel there were gone by that point.

With all this considered it's easy to see that timelines like Future Trunks' make perfect sense. Not to mention that it's possible for timelines where they did find Namek and wished back Gohan to exist since there are an infinite number of timelines. That's the beauty of the timelines of the arc.

1. King Kai doesn't do jack squat on his planet except drive his car and hang out with Bubbles. Not that it's his own fault, he's so pathetically weak he probably can't do anything even if he tried. Also, he can go wherever he likes in the afterlife so what exactly is stopping him from his non-existent duties to go tell Goku what happened (especially since he can likely sense everyone on Earth being murdered) and find a more suitable location for him to directly contact the inhabitants of New Namek from. Hell, he can even arrange for Goku to beat up whatever fighters the other quadrant Kai's have if that's what it takes to get their help.

But okay, let's say for the sake of argument he has another, bigger crisis to deal with: he can still help Earth. In fact, him helping out Earth so the Z-fighters can aid in whatever other crisis is out there would be in his best interest. By giving the fighters in the afterlife training and helping them come back to life, he's basically securing himself TWO Super Saiyan's (Vegeta and Gohan) and a Super Namekian to beat up any problem he might have elsewhere or in the future.

2. I know Goku can't come back, everyone else can though so there's no reason why Goku and King Kai couldn't have found a way to do so with the options and free time they've got left. Hell, even if Goku couldn't keep his body, King Kai can still intervene in this matter regardless.

3. Doesn't matter, they've got King Kai and/or Goku at their disposal from the afterlife both of whom can put in a good word for everyone to keep their bodies (except maybe Vegeta) and contact people the inhabitants of New Namek.

So no, the future timeline is still bulls*** as far as I'm concerned and if there really IS an alternate timeline where everyone isn't both an a***** and a moron, then why couldn't the same happen here?

King Kai said so himself in the manga that he's a busy man, otherwise he would've know about the Androids and Cell without Goku telling him. We don't know exactly how King Kai's job works, but we don't need to. The fact remains that Kais in general are needed to oversee the galaxies.

Gohan is realistically the only dead Z-Fighter who could potentially be useful. Vegeta definitely can't go to otherworld due his genocidal history. Everyone else is too weak to be effective. Maybe Piccolo would be useful too if he merges with Kami, but I doubt he'd be able to beat both 17 and 18. And, like I said, the reasons I mentioned earlier ultimately makes their usefulness a mute point.

ekrolo2

Oct 23 2015, 06:29 PM

SSJsongojames

Oct 23 2015, 06:14 PM

ekrolo2

Oct 23 2015, 06:03 PM

SSJsongojames

Oct 23 2015, 05:43 PM

ekrolo2

Oct 21 2015, 02:51 PM

The Androids being strong enough to fight the good guys isn't necessarily a problem for me. My problem lies in the fact that the 17 and 18s rampage even last a quarter as long as it did because of Namek. There's no way in hell that everyone in Otherworld wouldn't come up with a plan to spend a few years training their asses off, learning things like the Kaio-ken then using the Dragon Balls of New Namek with some communication aid from King Kai to revive the fallen Z-fighters and repair the Lookout if 17 and 18 somehow destroyed it.

From that point on, even if Piccolo is the only one left from the revived fighters who can stand up to them, he can still take Gohan into the ROSAT a couple of times and both would return infinitely more powerful than before. Hell, the dead Z-fighters could even use the Dragon Balls to teleport the still living Gohan to Otherworld so he can train too. And this is if Goku fails to convince Yemma to let Vegeta keep his body.

There's simply no way the Androids should've gone on unchallenged in the Future Timeline, New Namek along with King Kai's communication ability makes it impossible for everyone but Goku to stay dead. That's why the future timeline perfectly represents why the Android & Cell Saga doesn't work at all, the good guys have too many viable loopholes to abuse for them to eve realistically lose.

There are multiple factors to consider:

1. King Kai is busy. This guy has to watch over a whole galaxy which is a humongous task. He cannot afford to go behind schedule for the sake of a single planet. Why else do you think he was angry at Goku after he destroyed his planet? This means that he wouldn't have time to look for New Namek because he'd be too busy with other planets. Also, King Kai never found the exact location of New Namek when he was searching for it, only the proximity of where he can sense Namekian Ki. Remember that Goku's instant transmission only worked because he's able to teleport to the Ki signature's exact location after he senses it. Outta space is too far wide to be able to pinpoint the location of a planet.

2. Goku cannot be wished back due to dying of natural causes. The only Saiyan who could be wished back is Gohan. It's unsure whether or not he was strong enough to face the Androids, but it wouldn't matter because of the reasons I mentioned earlier.

3. Bulma doesn't have a Spaceship that could travel to New Namek. All the spaceships they had that could travel there were gone by that point.

With all this considered it's easy to see that timelines like Future Trunks' make perfect sense. Not to mention that it's possible for timelines where they did find Namek and wished back Gohan to exist since there are an infinite number of timelines. That's the beauty of the timelines of the arc.

1. King Kai doesn't do jack squat on his planet except drive his car and hang out with Bubbles. Not that it's his own fault, he's so pathetically weak he probably can't do anything even if he tried. Also, he can go wherever he likes in the afterlife so what exactly is stopping him from his non-existent duties to go tell Goku what happened (especially since he can likely sense everyone on Earth being murdered) and find a more suitable location for him to directly contact the inhabitants of New Namek from. Hell, he can even arrange for Goku to beat up whatever fighters the other quadrant Kai's have if that's what it takes to get their help.

But okay, let's say for the sake of argument he has another, bigger crisis to deal with: he can still help Earth. In fact, him helping out Earth so the Z-fighters can aid in whatever other crisis is out there would be in his best interest. By giving the fighters in the afterlife training and helping them come back to life, he's basically securing himself TWO Super Saiyan's (Vegeta and Gohan) and a Super Namekian to beat up any problem he might have elsewhere or in the future.

2. I know Goku can't come back, everyone else can though so there's no reason why Goku and King Kai couldn't have found a way to do so with the options and free time they've got left. Hell, even if Goku couldn't keep his body, King Kai can still intervene in this matter regardless.

3. Doesn't matter, they've got King Kai and/or Goku at their disposal from the afterlife both of whom can put in a good word for everyone to keep their bodies (except maybe Vegeta) and contact people the inhabitants of New Namek.

So no, the future timeline is still bulls*** as far as I'm concerned and if there really IS an alternate timeline where everyone isn't both an a***** and a moron, then why couldn't the same happen here?

King Kai said so himself in the manga that he's a busy man, otherwise he would've know about the Androids and Cell without Goku telling him. We don't know exactly how King Kai's job works, but we don't need to. The fact remains that Kais in general are needed to oversee the galaxies.

Gohan is realistically the only dead Z-Fighter who could potentially be useful. Vegeta definitely can't go to otherworld due his genocidal history. Everyone else is too weak to be effective. Maybe Piccolo would be useful too if he merges with Kami, but I doubt he'd be able to beat both 17 and 18. And, like I said, the reasons I mentioned earlier ultimately makes their usefulness a mute point.

Overseeing is just that, overseeing. They don't directly deal with any problem unless its brought to their attention or is too great a threat to simply leave unchecked.

As for the others, Piccolo and Gohan are all you need to beat 17 and 18. By contacting New Namek, you can easily bring Gohan to the check-in station at which point you can simply have him, Piccolo and Goku train like crazy for at least the same time period they did in preparation during the regular timeline. There's no way Piccolo and Gohan are leaving there without learning Kaio-ken, Super Saiyan and maybe even in the IT.

Using the wishes of New Namek again, you can revive Piccolo, the humans and Vegeta, return everyone back to Earth at which point Gohan and Piccolo can simply train more in the ROSAT if it's really necessary and boom, the Androids are f*cked. With this amount of training, Piccolo wouldn't even need to fuse with Kami to beat 17 and 18.